2. Napier(2005) stated that Princess Mononoke defamiliarises two icons in Japanese culture.
The first one is "the myth of the feminine as long-suffering and supportive" and "they myth of Japanese as living in harmony with nature, often expressed through a union of the feminine with the natural"
In addition, he also stated that "the film defamiliarises conventional notions of Japanese history through Miyazaki's decision to set the film during the fourteenth-century Muromachi period and his subsequent subversion of conventional expectations concering what a film set in that era should be about".
3. According to Napier (2005), Hayao Miyazaki had strategies of subversion that problematize many of the accepted myths of Japanese culture. Prince Mononoke creates a world that appears to have some kind of historical basis but consistently audience expectations of how that world should be.
Napier examplified the pervasiveness of this distabilization in the choice of historical setting.
5. Yes, I think so, because there are so many elements of "Shinto" within Princess Mononoke.
First of all, there was an idea of ancient "Kami (Japanese god)" and the movie also showed that everyone must respect and also sort of fear "Kami", because of his authority and mysterios, but powerful power over nature and human.
Second of all, Wright (2005) stated that, "representation of Kami and the natural world in Miyazaki's film express an underlying belief of the early Shinto worldview, that is, continuity beween humanity and nature"
For Q6, I believe what distinguishes Princess Mononoke as a superb anime is how Miyazaki avoids stereotypical characterization. According to Cavallaro (2006), One of Miyazaki's priorities throughout the planning as well as actual realization of the film was avoidance of stereotypical characterization. This is the reason that Princess Mononoke doesn't really feature what typically known as 'the bad guy'. Sure, at first glance of the anime, people would usually consider Lady Eboshi as the typical 'bad guy', as she unscrupulously depletes the forest. However, she also offers shelter and works to both lepers and ex-hookers in iron town.
Furthermore, Cavallaro (2006) also suggests that it is how Miyazaki vividly portrayed the constant conflict between human and the nature, which in another way reflects the current problem in the modern civilization too. In addition, "...a production such as Princess Mononoke utilizing actual people and places could never as effectively interweave serious political concerns and purely imaginary elements without somehow sacrificing either its realism or its fantastic dimension." This is why Princess Mononoke serves as a powerful and incredibly unique in its category, which no other form of cinema may imitate, let alone equal. (Cavallaro, 2006)
Regarding to Q4, Wright (2005) suggests that Princess Mononoke was intentionally set in the Muromachi era (1392-1573) by Miyazaki. It was the time when the relationship between humanity and nature was radically changing in Japan. Firearms as well as hand-cannons were introduced and imported by the Portuguese in 1543, the beginning of Iron Age plus the growing conflict between the natural world and the newly industrialized humans. Furthermore, Wright states that Miyazaki thinks that humans not only declared war on the kamigami, the wild gods, but also killed shishigami, the deer god around the Muromachi period, because human no longer respect the forests. As a result to the conflict, Miyazaki said “there can be no happy ending to the war between rampaging forest gods and humanity”.
Yep, I think the theme of Princess Mononoke is really good. And I also delete the underlying theme of Princess Mononoke is related to the relationship between human and the nature. In the anime, we can see that the forest was over-developed by human who have the desire to exploit resources from the forest. In my view, the intention of Mayazaki is to try to get people’s attention to issues relating to the nature. I think the behavior of human in the anime is actually the same as in the reality, also, in nowadays society, our industrialization is rapidly processing, and people are hurting the nature.
Q1 I quite agree with Yian. I think the underlying theme of Princess Mononoke is the war between human and nature. In my point of view, this theme can be seen very often in Miyazaki's work. Human usually want to fight more place or more power from nature also in "Princess of Mononoke" we can also notice it as well.
I think there are more to just war between human and nature as the themes in Princess Mononoke.
Miyazaki has also touched on numerous themes in the film and notably Feminism.
Napier pointed out Miyazaki has cleary undermines the female stereotyping in the Japanese culture and also the anime world. Not only that, the female characters of PM is also fairly different from his own previous female creations.
There are three female characters in PM : Eboshi, San and Moro. Although female characters has always been of a great importance in all Miyazaki's creation, the characters in PM steer away from the typical sweetness syojo characteristics which he has imposed on brave Nausicaa to the little girls of Totoro (where the characters still possess gendered aspects like sweetness and cuteness).
The absence of sweetness/cuteness on the female characters of PM is a cultural re-construction in a way and that makes the female characters in PM more remarkable.
I would like to add some perspectives regarding on feminism.
I remembered when I was young, I probably spent 80 percent of my time watching tv. Being an 80s baby, growing up during the Information Age, I was characterized by my insastiable urge to consume media.
I read lots of books, listened to countless cassette tapes and been to lots of movies. However, what bothers me is that these new knowledge, ideas and storylines I acquired from these media was missing one strong requirement : good female role models.
When I was younger, I loved watching fantasy and science fiction television series. Usually, in these series the female characters are only a supporting character and often poorly developed and failed to appeal.
Sometimes, when I was young, I would play the games of pretend in my neighbourhood. When we were bored of playing the same old female characters (those that are satisfying) such as Wonder Woman and She-Ra, we decided to play the male roles instead.
We rather be a male super-hero rather than be He-Man's weak little Teela.
Even if were still to young to understand the word "degrading", we certainly understood the word "boring".
Fast-foward, 15 years later, the problem still hasn't been solved. Yes, it is true that there are a few new female characters that have appeared in children's storybooks and cartoons, but I think the world still lack of empowered female role models.
It is true that Disney (1990s)has responded to parental demands for positive female role models and had created a few films with heroines including Pochahontas (environmentalist) and Mulan (revoking the patriarchal system).
But, in my opinion, I think that the strongest female role models in animation today are not American, but rather the Japanese.
Well, if we compared Miyazaki's and Disney's heroine, we will know so.
The level of believable, empowered female characters in Miyazaki's animation are far more higher than Disney's.
Although, Miyazakis comes from a culture that is in fact be historically more opressive of women than America, his female characters are allow to retain postions of powere. Whereas, the female characters in Disney may stray away from the 'typical' feminine roles, but they never entirely free themselves the authority of the male.
For example: Miyazaki's Nausiscaa and Disney's Pochahontas.
I remembered Nausicaa was alone in the poisonous forest, trying to collect some materials for her village. She is very good in guns and tools which is a strange combination with her girlish giggles when she found the shell of the insect thingy - Ohmu.
The tension between femininty and competence is strongly reinfonced when Nausicaa rescued her old mentor when he was attacked.
When Nausicaa returned to the village, they were concerned of her safety while she was in the jungle and they acknowledged her skill of obtaining the Ohmu shell.
Whereas, in Disney's Pochahontas, she is also quite similar to Nausicaa in the opening of the film. She left the village to communicate with the forest. She is very skillful and was able to dive from a high cliff into the water below which shows her youth and competence. However, her role in her village is not as central as Nausicaa. Pochahontas' father was not happy that she is not present for the return of the warriors and her escape to the forests is regarded as naive and irresponsible.
Although Pochantas is very brave and competent, she is not seen as contributing to village's everyday life like Nausicaa.
Further, Pochahontas' father pressured her into settling down and to get marry - which is something Nausiscaa's father would not do, even though he is ailing.
Nausiscaa is seen to be much too important to stay home, get married and make babies, whereas Pochahontas is seen to be in need of calming down by marrying, to be able to join the tribal life.
Well, I think in terms of sophistication of animation, Disney and Miyazaki is compatible. However, I think the content of Disney's films is still far from cutting edge.
Miyazaki's films are so much richer in content and complex in plot, which make them films for children to grow up with and grow into.
Disney, on the other hand seems to be ignoring the possible older audience market and produce films with overly simplistic storylines with shocking gaping plot holes.
x x x
Right, I finished rambling.
Congratulations if you make it so far. lol.
x x x
I think it is still kind of relevant to our discussion though. Right?
According to Wright, Miyazaki's films express an underlying belief of the early Shinto worldview, that is continuity between humanity and nature.
This concept is also condense into the Japanese word - Nagare which means "flow" and leads to the conception of vital connections between the divine nature of the kami, and by extension the natural world, and humanity (through respectful rituals); betwewwn post-mortem souls and the living (such as construct/descendent/ancestor link) and between the inner and outer worlds (as expressed through ideas about pollution and purity).
So, in short, the ancient Japanses did not strictly divide their world into the material and the spiritual, nor between this world and another perfect realm.
Miyazaki quoted : "I've come to the point where I just can't make a movie without addressing the problem of humanity as part of an ecosystem".
Examples of how Miyazaki films address the humanity/nature divide can be seen in Nausicaa.
The story of Nausicaa is after all a simple back and white view of humanity/pollution versus nature.
Also, later in Princess Mononoke, Miyazaki is also depicting the view of humanity/pollution versus nature albeit more ambiguosly.
It is likely that thirteen years after the production of Nausicaa, Miyazaki has come to realize the complexity of the theme and was inspired to take on a more ambiguous view of humanity.
Princess Mononoke does not define 'right' or wrong' in a conflict between man and nature.
I am sure we all had watched PM, and we knew that the conflicts between the human and nature came to an end when Ashitaka managed to earn San's trust and come to an understanding of each other's worlds and strive to create a peaceful co-existence.
I find this quote by Miyazaki very interesting:
"We are not trying to solve global problems. There cannot be a happy ending in the fight between raging gods and humans. However, in the middle of hatred and killings, there are things worth living for. A wonderful meeting or a beautiful thing can exist."
In Mononoke, the Iron town developers are not shown as senseless offenders of nature as they cut down trees to make steel. Their actions can be justified because their aim is to give the disadvantaged (ex hookers/lepers) a place in society, yet the Animal Gods of the forest also have every right to be angry.
I think Miyazaki questions man's place in nature, but he does not offer any answers in the film; he wants the audience to make the judgement.
So, guys, what are your verdict on man's place in nature?
14 comments:
1. What are the underlying thematics of Princess Mononoke?
2. How does it ‘defamiliarise’ its historical setting, according to Napier (2005)?
3. According to Napier, how does this anime problematise traditional (or conservative) constructions of gender, class and race?
4. How do it and other Miyazaki films address the humanity/nature divide, according to Wright (2005)?
5. Could Miyazaki’s vision be described as in some sense religious (inasmuch as it conveys a sense of the sacred)?
6. Finally, with reference to Cavallaro (2006), what distinguishes Mononoke technically as being – it is generally agreed – a great work of anime?
2. Napier(2005) stated that Princess Mononoke defamiliarises two icons in Japanese culture.
The first one is "the myth of the feminine as long-suffering and supportive" and "they myth of Japanese as living in harmony with nature, often expressed through a union of the feminine with the natural"
In addition, he also stated that "the film defamiliarises conventional notions of Japanese history through Miyazaki's decision to set the film during the fourteenth-century Muromachi period and his subsequent subversion of conventional expectations concering what a film set in that era should be about".
3. According to Napier (2005), Hayao Miyazaki had strategies of subversion that problematize many of the accepted myths of Japanese culture. Prince Mononoke creates a world that appears to have some kind of historical basis but consistently audience expectations of how that world should be.
Napier examplified the pervasiveness of this distabilization in the choice of historical setting.
5. Yes, I think so, because there are so many elements of "Shinto" within Princess Mononoke.
First of all, there was an idea of ancient "Kami (Japanese god)" and the movie also showed that everyone must respect and also sort of fear "Kami", because of his authority and mysterios, but powerful power over nature and human.
Second of all, Wright (2005) stated that, "representation of Kami and the natural world in Miyazaki's film express an underlying belief of the early Shinto worldview, that is, continuity beween humanity and nature"
For Q6, I believe what distinguishes Princess Mononoke as a superb anime is how Miyazaki avoids stereotypical characterization. According to Cavallaro (2006), One of Miyazaki's priorities throughout the planning as well as actual realization of the film was avoidance of stereotypical characterization. This is the reason that Princess Mononoke doesn't really feature what typically known as 'the bad guy'. Sure, at first glance of the anime, people would usually consider Lady Eboshi as the typical 'bad guy', as she unscrupulously depletes the forest. However, she also offers shelter and works to both lepers and ex-hookers in iron town.
Furthermore, Cavallaro (2006) also suggests that it is how Miyazaki vividly portrayed the constant conflict between human and the nature, which in another way reflects the current problem in the modern civilization too. In addition, "...a production such as Princess Mononoke utilizing actual people and places could never as effectively interweave serious political concerns and purely imaginary elements without somehow sacrificing either its realism or its fantastic dimension." This is why Princess Mononoke serves as a powerful and incredibly unique in its category, which no other form of cinema may imitate, let alone equal. (Cavallaro, 2006)
Regarding to Q4, Wright (2005) suggests that Princess Mononoke was intentionally set in the Muromachi era (1392-1573) by Miyazaki. It was the time when the relationship between humanity and nature was radically changing in Japan. Firearms as well as hand-cannons were introduced and imported by the Portuguese in 1543, the beginning of Iron Age plus the growing conflict between the natural world and the newly industrialized humans. Furthermore, Wright states that Miyazaki thinks that humans not only declared war on the kamigami, the wild gods, but also killed shishigami, the deer god around the Muromachi period, because human no longer respect the forests. As a result to the conflict, Miyazaki said “there can be no happy ending to the war between rampaging forest gods and humanity”.
Yep, I think the theme of Princess Mononoke is really good. And I also delete the underlying theme of Princess Mononoke is related to the relationship between human and the nature. In the anime, we can see that the forest was over-developed by human who have the desire to exploit resources from the forest. In my view, the intention of Mayazaki is to try to get people’s attention to issues relating to the nature. I think the behavior of human in the anime is actually the same as in the reality, also, in nowadays society, our industrialization is rapidly processing, and people are hurting the nature.
Q1
I quite agree with Yian. I think the underlying theme of Princess Mononoke is the war between human and nature. In my point of view, this theme can be seen very often in Miyazaki's work. Human usually want to fight more place or more power from nature also in "Princess of Mononoke" we can also notice it as well.
Victor and Yi-An,
I think there are more to just war between human and nature as the themes in Princess Mononoke.
Miyazaki has also touched on numerous themes in the film and notably Feminism.
Napier pointed out Miyazaki has cleary undermines the female stereotyping in the Japanese culture and also the anime world. Not only that, the female characters of PM is also fairly different from his own previous female creations.
There are three female characters in PM : Eboshi, San and Moro. Although female characters has always been of a great importance in all Miyazaki's creation, the characters in PM steer away from the typical sweetness syojo characteristics which he has imposed on brave Nausicaa to the little girls of Totoro (where the characters still possess gendered aspects like sweetness and cuteness).
The absence of sweetness/cuteness on the female characters of PM is a cultural re-construction in a way and that makes the female characters in PM more remarkable.
I would like to add some perspectives regarding on feminism.
I remembered when I was young, I probably spent 80 percent of my time watching tv. Being an 80s baby, growing up during the Information Age, I was characterized by my insastiable urge to consume media.
I read lots of books, listened to countless cassette tapes and been to lots of movies. However, what bothers me is that these new knowledge, ideas and storylines I acquired from these media was missing one strong requirement : good female role models.
When I was younger, I loved watching fantasy and science fiction television series. Usually, in these series the female characters are only a supporting character and often poorly developed and failed to appeal.
Sometimes, when I was young, I would play the games of pretend in my neighbourhood. When we were bored of playing the same old female characters (those that are satisfying) such as Wonder Woman and She-Ra, we decided to play the male roles instead.
We rather be a male super-hero rather than be He-Man's weak little Teela.
Even if were still to young to understand the word "degrading", we certainly understood the word "boring".
Fast-foward, 15 years later, the problem still hasn't been solved. Yes, it is true that there are a few new female characters that have appeared in children's storybooks and cartoons, but I think the world still lack of empowered female role models.
It is true that Disney (1990s)has responded to parental demands for positive female role models and had created a few films with heroines including Pochahontas (environmentalist) and Mulan (revoking the patriarchal system).
But, in my opinion, I think that the strongest female role models in animation today are not American, but rather the Japanese.
Why so?
Well, if we compared Miyazaki's and Disney's heroine, we will know so.
The level of believable, empowered female characters in Miyazaki's animation are far more higher than Disney's.
Although, Miyazakis comes from a culture that is in fact be historically more opressive of women than America, his female characters are allow to retain postions of powere. Whereas, the female characters in Disney may stray away from the 'typical' feminine roles, but they never entirely free themselves the authority of the male.
For example: Miyazaki's Nausiscaa and Disney's Pochahontas.
I remembered Nausicaa was alone in the poisonous forest, trying to collect some materials for her village. She is very good in guns and tools which is a strange combination with her girlish giggles when she found the shell of the insect thingy - Ohmu.
The tension between femininty and competence is strongly reinfonced when Nausicaa rescued her old mentor when he was attacked.
When Nausicaa returned to the village, they were concerned of her safety while she was in the jungle and they acknowledged her skill of obtaining the Ohmu shell.
Whereas, in Disney's Pochahontas, she is also quite similar to Nausicaa in the opening of the film. She left the village to communicate with the forest. She is very skillful and was able to dive from a high cliff into the water below which shows her youth and competence. However, her role in her village is not as central as Nausicaa. Pochahontas' father was not happy that she is not present for the return of the warriors and her escape to the forests is regarded as naive and irresponsible.
Although Pochantas is very brave and competent, she is not seen as contributing to village's everyday life like Nausicaa.
Further, Pochahontas' father pressured her into settling down and to get marry - which is something Nausiscaa's father would not do, even though he is ailing.
Nausiscaa is seen to be much too important to stay home, get married and make babies, whereas Pochahontas is seen to be in need of calming down by marrying, to be able to join the tribal life.
Well, I think in terms of sophistication of animation, Disney and Miyazaki is compatible. However, I think the content of Disney's films is still far from cutting edge.
Miyazaki's films are so much richer in content and complex in plot, which make them films for children to grow up with and grow into.
Disney, on the other hand seems to be ignoring the possible older audience market and produce films with overly simplistic storylines with shocking gaping plot holes.
x x x
Right, I finished rambling.
Congratulations if you make it so far. lol.
x x x
I think it is still kind of relevant to our discussion though.
Right?
Yi-an,
"And I also delete the underlying theme of Princess Mononoke is related to the relationship between human and the nature."
Delete and Detect has very different meanings, you know?
hehe, I just noticed while I was re-reading the comments.
Hey,
by the way, where has Guo Fang gone? He hasn't attend Pop.genre classes for eons.
Question 4:
Well,
According to Wright, Miyazaki's films express an underlying belief of the early Shinto worldview, that is continuity between humanity and nature.
This concept is also condense into the Japanese word - Nagare which means "flow" and leads to the conception of vital connections between the divine nature of the kami, and by extension the natural world, and humanity (through respectful rituals); betwewwn post-mortem souls and the living (such as construct/descendent/ancestor link) and between the inner and outer worlds (as expressed through ideas about pollution and purity).
So, in short, the ancient Japanses did not strictly divide their world into the material and the spiritual, nor between this world and another perfect realm.
Miyazaki quoted : "I've come to the point where I just can't make a movie without addressing the problem of humanity as part of an ecosystem".
Examples of how Miyazaki films address the humanity/nature divide can be seen in Nausicaa.
The story of Nausicaa is after all a simple back and white view of humanity/pollution versus nature.
Also, later in Princess Mononoke, Miyazaki is also depicting the view of humanity/pollution versus nature albeit more ambiguosly.
It is likely that thirteen years after the production of Nausicaa, Miyazaki has come to realize the complexity of the theme and was inspired to take on a more ambiguous view of humanity.
Princess Mononoke does not define 'right' or wrong' in a conflict between man and nature.
I am sure we all had watched PM, and we knew that the conflicts between the human and nature came to an end when Ashitaka managed to earn San's trust and come to an understanding of each other's worlds and strive to create a peaceful co-existence.
I find this quote by Miyazaki very interesting:
"We are not trying to solve global problems. There cannot be a happy ending in the fight between raging gods and humans. However, in the middle of hatred and killings, there are things worth living for. A wonderful meeting or a beautiful thing can exist."
In Mononoke, the Iron town developers are not shown as senseless offenders of nature as they cut down trees to make steel. Their actions can be justified because their aim is to give the disadvantaged (ex hookers/lepers) a place in society, yet the Animal Gods of the forest also have every right to be angry.
I think Miyazaki questions man's place in nature, but he does not offer any answers in the film; he wants the audience to make the judgement.
So, guys, what are your verdict on man's place in nature?
*ponders*
x x x
Again, I went off the tangent.
Sorry.
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